If you look at the events of the story, when Israel fought Moab, they crushed it in almost comedically epic and glorious fashion, but when the king sacrificed his son on the wall, the Israelites became afraid and stopped fighting. This is fitting, considering that God . Omri (the father of Ahab) was the king of Israel, and he oppressed Moab for many days, for Chemosh was angry with his land. Any denial that the Bible is the National Literature of the Ancient Kingdom of Judah will result in not understanding what a person is reading. If a Girl says to me "call me tomorrow and we'll go on a date." Genesis 1:1-2 Not a Creation ex nihilo! Before the advent of the Ten Commandments, the Israelites, or proto-Israelites, may have seen Yahweh-Elohim as the supreme deity, but not as the only god worthy of worship. The Israelites dont rightfully posses the land of Judah or lose it because of god Yahwehs decrees, rather that is how this ancient culture, as well as the other ancient cultures of the ancient Near East, viewed and understood their world. The specific characteristics of Chemosh are not clear in many respects. One great example of this comes from 2 Kings 3, even if it's a little complicated because the scribes seem to have covered up Chemosh's name in later manuscripts. Certainly not Yahweh. (Judges 11). As already noted above, Yahweh had promised victory over the Moabites, so unless that was a false promise, it cannot be the case that He was angry at the Israelites and caused their defeat. The god (ha-elohim) who answers by fire--he is God (ha-elohim)." That suggests it wasnt redacted until the exile period, when the Pentatuch was created, as opposed to an earlier JE redaction. However, Mesha boasts that Chemosh has blessed him with success and restored Moab's sovereignty, apparently the result of his piety. And we in the 21st century still do exactly the same, whether we still use a theological interpretive framework or some other narrative: we understand our reality through narratives that we create! This practice, while gruesome, was certainly not unique to the Moabites, as such rites were commonplace in the various Canaanite religious cults, including those of the Baals and Moloch. . Copy link. Because we are looking at two different Elohim, the Elohim in the phrase "the Elohim of their father" must be used in the plural sense. Later still, the tradition of monotheism emerged, in which other gods were regarded either as non-existent "false" deities, or as demons masquerading as God. This act by Solomon was no doubt to some extent a political one, motivated by a desire to honor his Moabite wife. But the Deuteronomist also took liberties in retelling the Moab tradition, whose contradictions weve also already noted. This is an example of polytheism in the Bible. Then all the people said, "What you say is good.". He was very respected and was considered by the people to be all-knowing and all-powerful. The entire old testament talks about the failure of the people of God. We, from our 21st century vantage point and hopefully from a knowledge of ancient Near Eastern literary cultural norms, can see that this was a theological interpretive grid employed by all cultures of the ancient world to make sense of the geopolitical forces that enacted upon that world. Listen to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 from First Bible Network. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." But grace is doing less than you are capable in the name of mercy and love. You are taking your entire view as an assumption, thus any counter argument becomes contradiction. Burton, Judd H. (2021, November 12). Is Bechar Benjamins son OR Ephraims son? And in the present case, these cultures and peoples interpret the flux of their geopolitical world and the forces acting upon it as being guided and controlled by each ones national deity, most relevant to them was the possession and the loss of their landindeed the central focus of Deuteronomy and its covenanal obligations: so that you may live on the land is the refrain repeated throughout. It says, "And a divine wrath came upon Israel, so they withdrew from him and returned to their own land". Only later, when subsequent biblical authors began to embrace monotheism, were the original writings suppressed. Maybe that's why Yahweh decided to sacrifice his firstborn son? "The etymology of "Chemosh" is unknown. (2 Kings 23:13) Dagon 221:27-30; Jer. God promise to give Israel total victory over Moab if they fought. The Israelites were driven back by divine wrath opposing their gods will. Yep Another story of People not trusting God. S o begins one of the most extraordinary ancient documents ever found. (Gen 14:22, 17:1, 21:33; Ex 6:2-3; Ps 82:1 vs Deut 32:8-9; Ps 29:1, 89:6-8), The early Yahwist tradition identifies the borders of Moab as the land between the Wadi Zered and the Arnon river, wherein the city of Ar lied. as a record of Mesha's victories in his revolt against the Kingdom of Israel after the death of his overlord, King Ahab. you're treating him like part of a pantheon. Chemosh Beat Yahweh in a Battle Would you believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other deities or armies in the Bible? Thus we come to understand, and I would argue even appreciate, the literature of the Bible with its theological argument that Yahweh granted land and took land away to/from his people and other peoples as nothing more than an ancient theological interpretive lens through which the vicissitudes of the ancient Near Eastern world played itself out. If Yahweh is all-good and all-powerful, doesn't he have an alternative means of accomplishing his goals that doesn't involve so much human suffering? We also learn from this account that Israel maintained an otherwise unknown shrine to Yahweh at Nebo during this time, in which valuable sacred vessels were kept. Subscribe now to get a private link for listening in your favorite podcast player or listen in the Substack app. (Gen 6:6-7; Ex 32:13-14; 1 Sam 2:30-31, 15:35; Amos 7:3; Jon 3:10 vs Num 23:19; 1 Sam 15:29; Mal 3:6), #300. Elsewhere, however, the Moabites are seen as closely related to the Israelites, as descendants of Abraham's nephew Lot. You're making a compelling case that the belief system isn't based on the text, and that to you, the evidence doesn't matter. The cult of Chemosh was eventually destroyed in Judah by King Josiah ( 2 Kings 23 ). But, suddenly, in verse 27, the Moabite king sacrifices his own child, and "divine wrath" fell on Israel, causing them to retreat. Dr. Judd H. Burton is an historian and anthropologist. Dispossess so to inherit his land! In short, the stele makes it clear that from the perspective of this Moabite scribe Chemosh controlled what befell the Moabites (blessings or curses) and who possessed the land. One says: The king sacrificed his son for the sake of Heaven, and one says: The king sacrificed his son for the sake of idol worship. https://www.blockonomics.co/pay-url/d67c8d28371411eb. "We have ample and melancholy evidence on this subject from the records of antiquity." It was believed that human sacrifice to Baal held the key to prosperity. But as a common literary topos, this same appeal to divine decree and the possession of land was also legitimated through the scribal pen of other ancient Near Eastern cultures, such as the Moabites, where it was Chemoshnot Yahwehwho decreed Moabs land as a rightful possession to the Moabites! The Hebrew word there, , is exclusively used in Classical Hebrew to describe the wrath of a deity. 7. Qetesh | [8] This defence is an ad-hoc Loki's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications. Angels are Elohim. . (Deut 2:24, 31). Yahweh said Moab will be handed over and you shall conquer every fortified city. The Lord has called these three kings to give them into the hand of Moab."'). The obvious implication is that the god Chemosh, happy with the sacrifice, caused Israel's defeat. Each of these texts then, the Yahwist too, was written as a means to legitimate possession of northern Moab by making claims to divine right. They represented the fierce, inescapable, and often consuming heat of the summer sun (a necessary but deadly element in life; analogs may be found in Aztec sun worship). Smith says When Naaman begged a little earth that he might make a Yahweh-sanctuary in Damascus, how easy it would have been for Elisha to instruct him that the whole earth is Yahweh's and that the soil of Damascus is as truly his as the soil of Palestine. your conclusion does not follow. 2 Kings 3:27 27 Then he (Mesha, king of the Moabites who worshiped Chemosh) took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. Mesha made it clear that he understood Chemosh's anger and the reason he allowed the Moabites to fall under the rule of Israel. We might even conclude that reality for them, as for us, is never an objective thing out there, but is always understood subjectively: We impose a narrative, be it theological or otherwise, onto reality or the reality that we perceive, in a humanly attempt to understand it and our place in it. Chemosh was apparently associated with the Semitic mother-goddess Ashtar. endeavors of King Mesha to overthrow the Israelite dominion of Moab. (Deuteronomy 2:9). God, in answer to this question, says, "you will destroy it entirely." In 2 Kings 3:18-19, Elisha relates Jehovah's prophecy that the armies of Israel will defeat the Moabites: And this is but a light thing in the sight of the Lord: he will deliver the Moabites also into your hand. Support the show with bitcoin: fbn@getalby.com And perceiving this we thus move way beyond the confines of one text, one God, one perspective, one religion. in 2 Kings 3, Yahweh's prophecy of victory is a failure, and a Moabite god's wrath drives Israel into retreat. [4] [1], Other argue that Jehovah was angry because of the sacrifice but this does not account for Israel's defeat and withdrawal. Albrecht Alt has shown that divine titles such as 'El Bet' el (Gen. 31:13; 35:7); 'El 'Olam (Gen. 21:33); and 'El Ro'i (Gen. 16:13); 'El 'Elyon (Gen. 14:18); and 'El Saddai (Gen. 17:1); all later taken to be one God (Yahweh) after Moses, were all originally separate gods worshipped by the early Hebrews.3 The Catholic scholar Bruce Vawter concurs with Alt. These facts are inexplicable except on the theory that neither Elisha nor Elijah nor the men who wrote their lives denied the existence of the heathen gods. He was called by the ancient Israelites as "the abomination of Moab". Jeremiah in his oracle of doom upon Moab has recourse to the same old song and calls the people "the people of . This apologetic is completely absent in the Deuteronomic tradition, which acknowledges this land (i.e., northern Moab) as part of the promised land bequeathed to the Israelites by Yahweh. Retrieved from https://www.learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630. He received his M.A. This appears to be the case, and every major city is destroyed except Kir Hareseth, or "Fortified City of Dirt." We also learn that Chemosh communicated with the king, probably through a form of divination similar to the many biblical references to Israelite kings "inquiring of the Lord." The high place on which Mesha oriented the stone was dedicated to Chemosh as well. Only the pure are allowed to eat sacrificial meat OR both the pure and impure? You ever hear of Kronos vs Zeus? Put another away, 'Yahweh is an Elohim, but no other Elohim are Yahweh - he is NOT a 'species equal'. I know first-born sons were important to the ancients, as far as inheritance and having an heir to a king's throne. And that in itself is fascinating. And its fascinating and instructive to learn of these things from this perspective. {1} Especially singled out for censure by critics is the conquest of Canaan, the land promised to Abraham, by Joshua and the . Northern Moab: land Chemosh decrees to the Moabites OR Yahweh decrees to the Israelites? Burton, Judd H. "Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites." He attributes his successes to his god, to whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine (high place) at "Qarcho. Just as the worship of Yahweh set Israelites apart from other peoples during the Iron Age II, so did the Ammonites' worship of Milcom distinguish them from their closest neighbors and rivals. The Charge of Genocide A common attack today on Christianity has to do with the character of the God of the Old Testament. I have given Ar to the descendants of Lot as a possession." (2 Kings 23:13). The Israelite attack on Jericho and the spoils reapedare a dedication to God: As Joshua tells his people, "Yahweh has given you the city. https://www.theveryfirstbible.org Although not explicit in the Mesha stele, we can likewise imagine that this scribe and his culture would have asserted that contrariwise Chemosh decreed northern Moab to the Moabites. Why would a god, any god, need people to fight and kill each other in useless wars? Does it fit or will we once again find a belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose God? According to Vawter, none of the available English translations does justice to the original Hebrew of Genesis 31:13, which quite simply reads "I am the god Bethel" ('El Bet'el), who was a member of the Canaanite pantheon along with the rest of the above.4 The original meaning is therefore quite different from the traditional understanding: this god at Bethel is not the universal Lord who appeared at Bethel but just one god among many a local deity of a specific place. Israel lost! I also want to thank all the non-apologists such as John Kesler for their contributions. 32:8) divided the earth according to the number of heavenly beings who existed from before the time of creation. So Israel is made up of humans, and Elijah's prophecy is not a prophecy of predestined destruction of Moab. Is Joshua allowed to enter the Tent of Meeting OR are only Aaronid priests? For my part, my unique educational trajectory through various disciplines of the HumanitiesPh.D. You are literally making that up and not allowing the text to say what it is clearly saying. Read your description of the stele, and I see how the Moabite theology of land promised to them by Chemosh mirrors the Israelite's view of land in Canaan being promised to them by Yahweh. The Bible in 2 Kings 3:4-5 verifies Mesha was the king of Moab during their revolt against Israel. Certainly in polytheistic religions, gods do lose battles. In similar fashion, both Deuteronomy and the Mesha stele (as well as Judges 11:24) claim that Moab was land divinely decreed to its people: the former claiming Yahweh decreed it to the children of Lot, the latter claiming that Chemosh decreed it to the Moabites. The Moabite Stone is a priceless source of information concerning Chemosh. Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26. firstbiblenetwork.substack.com. (Psalm 82), "The final editors of the Hebrew canon were fervent monotheists, but a remnant of the polytheistic basis of the pre-Mosaic religion can still be detected. Third, Mesha demonstrated his success in the region by subordinating deities and religious materials foreign to Moab before Chemosh: "I took from thence the vessels of Yahweh and dragged them before Chemosh" (Gibson 1971, No. You will overthrow every fortified city and every major town." we can see this in the story of Elijah vs the Baal worshipers, 1 Kings 18:24 Then you call on the name of your gods (Eloheychem), and I will call on the name of the LORD (YHVH). Apparently you didn't read the whole chapter and are deliberately taking it out of context in order to preach your unsupported claims. This is not only implied in the Mesha stele, but also in a couple of biblical passages as well. And he asks: Moabites, the People of Chemosh: The national God of the Moabites, as Baal of the Zidonians, or Milcom (Moloch, Malcam) of the Ammonites. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land." Indeed Judges 11:24 speaks of Chemosh as the god of the Ammonites. Do the Israelites set out for the wilderness of Paran OR Hazeroth? Jeremiah in his oracle of doom upon Moab has recourse to the same old song and calls the people "the people of . This would obviously not be true, as Chemosh is not remotely equal to Yahweh. 24Will you not take what your god Chemosh gives you? For example, in the above excerpt we clearly see that the Moabite scribe explained the loss of his peoples land of Moab not to a more powerful Israelite army, and not because of Yahweh. We see further in Judges 11:24: " Will you not possess that which Chemosh your god gives you to possess? Thus, it would seem that Semitic regard for respective national deities operated similarly from region to region. They weren't beaten back, they just left. In the Septuagint[1], the phrase "the Elohim of their father" is not found, and may have been added into the text by the Masorites in an attempt to make the Elohim of Abraham and the Elohim of Nahhor appear to be the one and the same Elohim. Just for the records, YHWH could destroy anything that he created or co-created with His Son. Kam, often written as Chemosh, is an ancient Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during the Iron Age. What part of "every" don't you understand? Twitter. The Moabites, Ammonites, and Israelites were reportedly kinsmen, and the Israelites sometimes worshiped Chemosh, as well as their own national god, Yahweh. 1. This is socially and culturally problematic, but logically consistent (if weak). The incorrect understanding is the backwards assumption of omnipotence from later Persian influence. Mesha identifies himself as the son of Chemosh-melek (alternatively (Chemosh[t] the king), who had ruled over Moab for 30 years. Why would he respond to a Moabite human sacrifice, break his own prophecy of victory, and force his own armies into retreat? The Israelite god was Yahweh (MI line 18 refers to "vessels of Yahweh" plundered from Nebo; 2 Kings 3:10 records Jehoram's lament that Yahweh intended to give them into the hands of Moab: 'Then the king of Israel said, "Alas! Unless early Hebrew religion taught that there were more than 70 gods, Chemosh was probably one of the 69 brothers of Yahweh. 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