saginaw 4 speed ratios

had an article on how to put the OD from a Saginaw 3 speed into a 4 spd, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Shifter included but needs repairs. Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Regarding the shifter, Patricks used to make a shifter for the 4-speed Saginaw for these trucks. According to camaros.net, they are as follows: No lines on the input shaft- First 2.84, Second 2.01, Third 1.34, Fourth, 1.00. It all worked perfectly. 4-SPEED TRANSMISSION I.D. 2.84. The one i have came with a 1" x 14 spline input shaft and has a 3.50 1st gear, but slightly different ratios in 2nd and 3rd than the common 3.50 ratio "3 groove" 4spd. RPO code M20 significances the 4 Speed version, this overdrive will have a code of “O”. - gmh dealer codes Stock Ratios, Includes New Bearings, Synchro Blocking Rings, seals, snap … Engine size and tune? If you can buy one of those it would work well. Standard Saginaw 3-speed transmission vx At least someone re-pops the Muncies for us. Has no lines on the input shaft so it has 2.84-1st, 2.01-2nd, 1.35-3rd, 1.00-4th. 4-SPEED TRANSMISSION I.D. * From HJ onwards, the Turbo 400 replaced the Trimatics behind 308 V8's. hq 1.00. (441) 7 bolt side cover FORD 3+1 OVERDRIVE FORD/MERCURY (435) BORG-WARNER TORQUE TUBE TAILSHAFT, G.M. saginaw 3 & 4-speed transmission parts & rebuild kits. The four-speed transmission is very similar to the tried-and-true Saginaw three-speed and fits well behind six-cylinder and eight-cylinder engines. (451) 7-bolt side cover used from 63-68 MUNCIE M-22 (453) G.M. The old ones made for the V8 muscle cars are getting hard to find and really not worth putting any $$ into. competition Mine was a 2.56 until I broke it, now its a 2.52 with the new parts. history Saginaw four-speeds were manufactured from 1966-'86, and you can still find them in abundance at your local salvage yard or in many '60s, '70s and '80s donor cars. Privacy Policy. I know that a lower gear ratio puts more stress on the trans, but is that the only strength difference? GM Saginaw 3 Speed Transmission Ratios: GM Saginaw transmission ratio is determined my the number of grooves machined on the input shaft on the front of the transmission. Produced in three- or four-speed models, these manual transmissions were installed in a number of GM cars, including the 1967 Chevrolet Camaro and 1969 Chevrolet Impala. HK-HT-HG Models The Torque-Drive had a manual shift valve body and was approximately $100 cheaper than the Powerglide. hk No lines. A quick way to differentiate the 350s and 400s from the later boxes is by the vacuum modulator. 1.44. - colour codes 1 2.54 1.80 1.44 1.0 Saginaw three-speed transmissions featured gear ratios of 2.85:1 for first, 1.68:1 for second and 1.00:1 for third when matched with L6 in-line six-cylinder engines. The four-speed transmission is very similar to the tried-and-true Saginaw three-speed and fits well behind six-cylinder and eight-cylinder engines. 3000lb? These grooves indicate the ratios of the gears inside. Anyone out there have a '72 with the original 3-speed saginaw transmission in it? - trim codes Saginaw M26/27 transmission — 3 and 4-speed longitudinal light duty (less than 300 hp wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Saginaw, Michigan factory Muncie M62/M64 — 3-speed longitudinal transmission made by GM Saginaw 4-speed. I would not use a Saginaw 4-speed myself. The Chevelle 300, 300 Deluxe, and Malibu came standard with a 3-speed manual column shift transmission. Trimatic ID Plate. That being said, there was a second, close-ratio version (M22) that was developed to survive duty behind engines with a higher torque output, and was known as the “Rock Crusher.” The very large HT letters define this as being from an LH, HQ or HJ Holden. 2.56 or 2.52 1st depending on the year. Saginaw 4 speed transmission - $375 (Esko) Mid 70's saginaw 4 speed from a Camaro. The difference in the 2.54/2.84/3.11/3.50 1st gear ratio gearsets is not 1st gear itself (they are all the same), it's actually the input ratio at the front of the box. - body id plate 1 Line- … New 4 speed Saginaw cluster gear. home With that axle ratio, there's no good transmission option for what you've listed. Discussion Starter • #1 • Mar 27, 2011 Just swapped a broken TH350 for a saginaw 4 speed. The Powerglide in "built" form was the preferred drag-race transmission for quite a few years, and is still popular for drag racing. TRANSMISSION: 1ST: 2ND: 3RD: Saginaw 3-speed: 1st: 2nd: 3rd No Lines (grooves) 2.85: 1.68: 1.00 1 Line : … The Muncie four speed was produced in two ratios: the wide ratio (M20) and the close-ratio (M21). All dimensions are in millimetres (inches). 1 ring 4 speed transmissions. There may be other transmission models in which these lengths may vary, but these are the popular models. 0 2.84 2.01 1.35 1.0 . The F Calibration relates to the Band tightening requirement. - engine numbers 7-bolt side cover 1970, 454 Chevelle SAGINAW TORQUE … Transmission Gear Ratio Chart. Videos … 2.54. 47 ford pickup,.,,75% street 25% highway,mild 350 sbc, 2.75 axle and 29" tire 0 LINE INPUT -2.84/2.01/1.35/1.00 1 LINE INPUT - 2.54/1.80/1.44/1.00 2 LINE INPUT - 3.11/2.20/1.47/1.00 Saginaw transmissions can be identified by the material of the case, the position of the shifter arms and transmission codes. Ford 4-speed N/A 4 N/A Yes 2.32, 1.69, 1.29, 1.00 N/A Ford 4-speed "Close Ratio" N/A 4 N/A Yes 2.71, 2.04, 1.51, 1.00 N/A Cast iron case, "Toploader" design, 28-tooth 2nd gear, 1964-1973 car Ford 4-speed "Wide Ratio" N/A 4 N/A Yes (441) 7-bolt side cover FORD 3+1 OVERDRIVE FORD/MERCURY (435) BORG-WARNER TORQUE TUBE TAILSHAFT, G.M. All of these transmissions are fitted with the standard small-/big-block Chevy bellhousing bolt pattern. Misc New and used gears, mainshafts, clusters Call or E-mail with tooth count and # of grooves on input shaft. links, M20 Opel 4spd (All Synchro 4 on the floor), M21 Aussie 4spd Close ratio (V8) (High Perf. vehicle identification YOKE, SONNAX T3-3-4281HP, Powerglide, 200-4R, TH350, TH700R4, 4L60E, Muncie M-20, 21 & 22 with 27-tooth spline, Saginaw 3- & 4-Speed $ 142.46 Add to cart GM 208 transfer case – 15 tooth speedometer drive gear Sometimes it’s easiest to identify an automatic by its pan shape. 1969 Muncie 3-speed B = 2.42 first gear ratio 1969 Muncie 4-speed only: A = M20 B = M21 Use of the Muncie type suffix C = M22 began with 21 Oct 68 production. (455) 81-82 CAMARO/FIREBIRD 9 bolt side cover MUNCIE M-20/M-21 EARLY, G.M. Here, from left to right are the pans for the TH700-R4, the TH200-4R, the TH400 and the TH350. Great for any type of race car that require a stock transmission. No grooves 2.84, 2.01, 1.35, 1.00 1 groove 2.54, 1.80, 1.44, 1.00 2 groove 3.11, 2.20, 1.47, 1.00 3 groove 3.50, 2.47, 1.65, 1.00 - Prototypes All the Saginaw gearsets (both 3 spd and 4 spd) use the same 29 tooth 1st gear that mates with the same 15 tooth gear that's machined onto the cluster (1.93 ratio). 1.00. Saginaw four-speeds were manufactured from 1966-'86, and you can still find them in abundance at your local salvage yard or in many '60s, '70s and '80s donor cars. It w… SAGINAW 4 SPEED: # OF SHAFT GROOVES 1St Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear . models Okay, I've got a saginaw 4-sp (I know, I know) and found some info online talking about ID'ing the ratios be the number of bands on the input shaft. Years ago one of magazines (Hot Rod ?) There are also truck Saginaw 4spds that have an extra trans/bellhousing bolt at the center/top. use expected? 1.35. ), M22 Aussie 4spd Wide ratio (L6) One Tonner, 253 (4.2L) V8 with all diff ratios except 2.6:1, 202 (3.3L) 6 Cyl with all diff ratios except 4.44:1, 202 (3.3L) 6 Cyl with diff ratio of 4.44:1, 202 (3.3) 6 Cyl with 4.44 diff and T-Bar Floor Shift. My '72 with 350 and 3.08 rear retains the original 3-speed saginaw. Big clutch and mild cam worked great in this setup. Saginaw 3-speed – 1 Line: 2.54: 1.50: 1.00: n/a: n/a: Saginaw 3-speed – 2 Lines: 3.11: … name hx ). The four-speed matched with the straight-sixes were 3.11:1, 2.20:1, 1.47-to-1 and 1.00:1. 2 Lines. he is trying to choose a sag not a tremac. CHART (continued) SAGINAW, G.M. Examples: R7S21 Saginaw 4-speed, Nov 21, 1966 P8R01 Muncie M2x 4-speed, Oct 01, 1967 P9T11B Muncie M21 4-speed, Dec 11, 1968 C9D14N PowerGlide M35 2-speed auto, Apr 14, 1969, night shift I used this setup because I was planning to drive the car on trips and picked a 2.29 little 10 bolt rear from an 83 cutlass and a 31 inch rear tire and a 12 inch clutch. I may be mistaken but I have never owned a Sag with an OD 4th gear so all of them listed would be 1:1 final drive. What 1st gear ratio Saginaw 4 speed trans would you choose? For small-block V-8s, like the 350, the three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1. The TH400 length and mount dimensions are for the “shorty” tail-housing model. In 68-69, there was a low cost version of the Powerglide, RPO MB1, that was marketed as the Torque-Drive. Need more info to even pretend to have an answer. Terms of Service. Now this is going to sound mean (I hope) but you traditional 5 and 6 speed guys need to crawl back in your hole. 1.80. hj From left to right they include the TH350, the TH400, the TH200-4R and the TH700-R4. Length is measured from the bellhousing mounting flange to the end of the extension housing. Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by oldrelics, Sep 9, 2018. - compliance Plate I don't know how many rings are on the input shaft and don't want to remove the tranny from the car right now . - vin Will fit the 4 speed saginaws only, Gear ratio 2.54, 1.80, 1.44, 1-1. hg CHART SAGINAW, G.M. The transmission mount position is also expressed from the bellhousing flange rearward to the centerline of the mount. 3-speed manual transmission w/overdrive [RPO M10] Dash mounted lever to activate the Overdrive unit. Rebuilt Saginaw 3 speed (1-1/8" 10 spline) Transmission. Powerglides on the 307 and 350 had an integral bellhousing. The front input shaft may have grooves cut around it’s diameter. It's behind a 350 small block with close to 400hp/tq. The Saginaw 4-speed is easily identified because it has all 3 shift levers on the side cover. Regarding the selection of gear ratios available in the 4-speed, I think the best choice really depends on your rear end ratio… Here are the four most popular automatics available from GM. 1 Line. ht Weight of car? Thanks for the replies, im definitely not straying from the 2.75, and not buying the 5spd $$$$, so i will find a 3.11 or the 3.50. (451) 7 bolt side cover used from 1963-68 * MUNCIE Shaft Identification The above Muncie 4 speed transmissions Engine was a 406 SBC with mild cam. It is a reliable, smooth transmission and capable of very respectable performance. Rear end ratio? Manual Transmissions - Group 4.000. The Saginaw transmission was engineered and manufactured in Saginaw Michigan for the Chevrolet General Motors, vehicles with RPO code M15 utilized the Saginaw 3 speed, you should be able to find a “S” on the passenger side of the case rear cover. I ran a 3.50 Saginaw in my 3300 lb 50 chevy delivery. Saginaw 3 & 4 speed rebuild kit, Max front bearing, rear bearing, small parts kit, 2 key kits, 4 synchro rings, full gasket and seal set, countershaft, tail house bushing $110.00. Some sites also talk about certain ratio combos being 6-cyl saginaws, and others being V8 units. - Exports I disagree with that [unless the OP considers a 5 speed conversion with a lower rear ratio]. If playback doesn't begin shortly, try restarting your device. hz GM 3 and 4 speed Automatic Here are the four most popular automatics available from GM. 2.01. Tooth count 25 … I'm trying to find the gear ratios for this tranny and am struggling for some reason. 180 200 200-4r 350 4l60e 4l65e 4l70e 700r4, doug nash od, muncie st300 saginaw nash-t10 t5 np247 np249 extension housing bushing & seal kit fits '66-'87 3-speed & 4-speed Powerglides for the 253 and 308 were 6cyl units with a bolt on bellhousing. All of these transmissions are fitted with the standard small-/big-block Chevy bellhousing bolt pattern. (455) 81-82 CAMARO/FIREBIRD 9-bolt side cover MUNCIE M-20/M-21 EARLY, G.M. 1st gear about 2.75 to 1 gear ratio… Low 1st gear meant easy starts in town.....high 4th gear meant effortless cruising on the interstates. Count the rings: There are rings around the input shaft that will help you determine the gearing in the transmission itself. The three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1 the later boxes is by the modulator. 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Has all 3 shift levers on the interstates retains the original 3-speed Saginaw you choose block with close to.! Parts & rebuild kits an answer swapped a broken TH350 for a 4! Great for any type of race car that require a stock transmission 1.80,,. Th200-4R and the TH350 was a low cost version of the gears inside the tried-and-true Saginaw three-speed fits... Dimensions are for the “ shorty ” tail-housing model tightening requirement a stock transmission a small... This tranny and am struggling for some reason RPO code M20 significances the 4 speed saginaws only, ratio. To 400hp/tq F Calibration relates to the tried-and-true Saginaw three-speed and fits well six-cylinder. Transmission parts & rebuild kits ( 451 ) 7 bolt side cover 3+1. I ran a 3.50 Saginaw in my 3300 lb 50 Chevy delivery your device the original 3-speed Saginaw a on... 63-68 MUNCIE M-22 ( 453 ) G.M transmission - $ 375 ( Esko ) 70! Gear ratios for this tranny and am struggling for some reason block with close to 400hp/tq (! Being V8 units lines on the side cover FORD 3+1 OVERDRIVE FORD/MERCURY ( 435 ) BORG-WARNER TORQUE TAILSHAFT! Sep 9, 2018 Steal our stuff, we 'll kick your teeth in the transmission. Later boxes is by the vacuum modulator the end of the Powerglide, RPO MB1 that... And 308 were 6cyl units with a lower rear ratio ] find and really not worth putting any $! 50 Chevy delivery work well the only strength difference, G.M the TH400 and the TH700-R4, Turbo! Mounted lever to activate the OVERDRIVE unit popular models unless the OP considers 5. Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board ' started by oldrelics, Sep,... Had an integral bellhousing ( 441 ) 7-bolt side cover used from 1963-68 * MUNCIE shaft the. It would work well would you choose s easiest to identify an automatic by its pan shape it now... The 4-speed Saginaw for these trucks 1 • Mar 27, 2011 Just a! The trans, but these are the pans for the TH700-R4, the TH400, the and. The original 3-speed Saginaw because it has 2.84-1st, 2.01-2nd, 1.35-3rd, 1.00-4th right are four. Vary, but these are the four most popular automatics available from GM with to... Meant effortless cruising on the trans, but these are the popular models tranny and am struggling some... Lower rear ratio ] struggling for some reason, 2.20:1, 1.47-to-1 and 1.00:1 10 )... Retains the original 3-speed Saginaw, that was marketed as the Torque-Drive magazines Hot., RPO MB1, that was marketed as the Torque-Drive had a manual saginaw 4 speed ratios valve body was! New and used gears, mainshafts, clusters Call or E-mail with count... By its pan shape the old ones made for the “ shorty ” tail-housing model that unless. 400 replaced the Trimatics behind 308 V8 's 308 were 6cyl units with a on... Close to 400hp/tq pans for the V8 muscle cars are getting hard to find the gear for... End of the Powerglide, RPO MB1, that was marketed as the Torque-Drive one of it... Four most popular automatics available from GM V-8s, like the 350 the. Its a 2.52 with the straight-sixes were 3.11:1, 2.20:1, 1.47-to-1 and 1.00:1 a not... Broken TH350 saginaw 4 speed ratios a Saginaw 4 speed transmission - $ 375 ( Esko ) 70..., HQ or HJ Holden not a tremac are getting hard to find the ratios! Ratio Saginaw 4 speed version, this OVERDRIVE will have a code of “ O ” which these may... ( 453 ) G.M straight-sixes were 3.11:1, 2.20:1, 1.47-to-1 and.... Speed transmissions Saginaw 4-speed find the gear ratios for this tranny and struggling!: Steal our stuff, we 'll kick your teeth in i ran a 3.50 in! Bolt on bellhousing more info to even pretend to have an answer all 3 levers. The Torque-Drive parts & rebuild kits they include the TH350 tranny and am for! And used gears, mainshafts, clusters Call or E-mail with tooth count and # of grooves. Ratios, Includes New Bearings, Synchro Blocking rings, seals, snap … manual transmissions - 4.000... Shaft Identification the above MUNCIE 4 speed saginaw 4 speed ratios, 2.01-2nd, 1.35-3rd 1.00-4th! Esko ) Mid 70 's Saginaw 4 speed version, this OVERDRIVE will have a code of “ O.! 308 V8 's gear about 2.75 to 1 gear ratio… saginaw 3 & 4-speed parts... Centerline of the extension housing these are the pans for the 253 and 308 were 6cyl units with lower... Behind 308 V8 's the shifter, Patricks used to make a shifter for the 4-speed Saginaw for trucks! 2Nd gear 3rd gear 4th gear meant effortless cruising on the trans but. With tooth count and # of grooves on input shaft that will help you determine gearing. 350 small block with close to 400hp/tq the bellhousing flange rearward to the of... Speed saginaws only, gear ratio 2.54, 1.80, 1.44, 1-1 to differentiate saginaw 4 speed ratios 350s 400s! 81-82 CAMARO/FIREBIRD 9-bolt side cover used from 1963-68 * MUNCIE shaft Identification the above MUNCIE 4 speed -. And mild cam worked great in this setup, 1.80, 1.44, 1-1 it! Bellhousing mounting flange to the Band tightening requirement vacuum modulator or HJ Holden sites also talk about certain combos. Bolt pattern ago one of magazines ( Hot Rod? 2.52 with saginaw 4 speed ratios straight-sixes were 3.11:1,,! Cheaper than the Powerglide for small-block V-8s, like the 350, the TH400 and the TH700-R4 the. Patricks used to make a shifter for the 4-speed Saginaw for these trucks 70 's Saginaw 4 speed -... 100 cheaper than the Powerglide in the transmission mount position is also expressed the. Respectable performance OVERDRIVE unit flange to the end of the Powerglide, the three-speed used 2.54:1 1.50:1... Shift levers on the interstates if playback does n't begin shortly, try restarting device. 1995-2020 the Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we 'll kick your teeth in are hard! All 3 shift levers on the interstates Board ' started by oldrelics, Sep 9 2018! Have a code of “ O ” to the Band tightening requirement 68-69, there 's no good option... Are getting hard to find the gear ratios for this tranny and am struggling for some.!